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EU Referendum - In or Out

Off Topic chat that doesn't fit anywhere else.

In or Out

Poll ended at Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:19 pm

In
8
53%
Out
7
47%
Don't Care
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 15

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Paul1986

Mikkel Beck

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EU Referendum - In or Out

PostTue Jun 21, 2016 9:19 pm

So not normally one to get political - especially on a message board but how are people voting - reasons

I'm still undecided mainly because I think the politicians are all lying scumbags, but i'm interested to see what others think about what is likely to be the highest voting turnout in generations
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Boro85

Wilf Mannion

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 7:36 am

I'm voting In.

I was originally "in", then over the weeks changed to "out" - mostly due to the sovereignity issue - I don't really want to become one big nation with Europe, and immigration/power is important to me. But over the last week I've been swayed back to "in" by the economic reasons (got to look after yourself at the end of the day) and a combination of the number of people I distrust and the number of people I trust on either side.

The campaigns themselves have been utterly disgraceful though. Absolutely terrible and one reason why so many people are disengaged with politics in this country.
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LTS_3

Micky Fenton

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 8:14 am

Ive watched as much as I can, and neither of them actually KNOW what is going to happen. Given this, I am voting out for a couple of reasons:

1. I cannot stand Cameron

2. All of the celebrities I have seen publicly back remain (Cumberbatch, Branson, Bonham-Carter, Clarkson, Beckham etc etc) have absolutely nothing in common with real people or coincidentally, northerners, which makes me think that they know some sort of massive tax hit will affect them and their pools of money if we leave

Basic reasons, but they are as valid to me as anything else, which is all guesswork by the sounds of it
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terminaljunkie

Bernie Slaven

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 12:06 pm

The EU to me is like FIFA, a law unto itself with a few people in power making all the decisions and many to the detriment of the people it should represent as in the workers and acting in an undemocratic way with the likes of Greece, Ireland etc.

Whatever others think is fine by me as is the outcome - the majority decision stands. If you have read the enormous amounts of wordage written, watched the likes of LEXIT, Michael Dougan, some of the laughably titled 'debates' and listened to the politicians deconstructing one another to the point of personal attacks then you should hopefully have an opinion. If not then you go with your heart & head (as long as they are aligned :mrgreen:

One thing I would add is that I think the poisonous and divisive campaigns are a new low point for British politics and following the election I would like to see all parties apologise for them. Such bile and negativity along with ever heightened portents of doom and personal attacks have no place in politics and furthermore the media should also be reigned in for its part in creating an acrimonious atmosphere around this event.

Just my 0.01
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Capybara

Scott McDonald

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 12:49 pm

I thought this subject might not appear as it is pretty civilised here. Anyroad, such debate as there is here should be civilised so I'll say my bit which isn't much. I'm a remainer so there's my cards on the table. All I will say is that if you have any doubt whatsoever then you ought to consider voting to stay for no other reason than that it's the only option that isn't irreversible. Once we are out we are out and that's it. And the out campaign still can't actually tell us what voting to leave is actually voting for. For the same reason I would argue that this is not the time to use your vote to kick the incumbent government.

And I'll agree with the others on the general standard of campaigning.
Last edited by Capybara on Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LTS_3

Micky Fenton

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 1:03 pm

Capybara wrote:it's the only option that isn't reversible.


Isn't irreversible?
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Capybara

Scott McDonald

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 1:06 pm

Cheers! Amended.
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Stepper_T

Fabrizio Ravanelli

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 2:44 pm

I'm voting in. Mainly as I haven't heard a convincing argument to leave. Started watching debates etc but then stopped as it was all lying and mud slinging. Guess I'm taking the easy option and sticking with what I know, but I do think we're better off in terms of the economy by remaining. Guess I'll never know if it's the right choice!
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 12:56 am

I'm voting out! I'd give my views why but you tend to get shot down for your reasons, just go on fmttm..
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Boro85

Wilf Mannion

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 6:01 am

wilson wrote:I'm voting out! I'd give my views why but you tend to get shot down for your reasons, just go on fmttm..


Not here, I like to think we're civilised!
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tunstall

Alan Peacock

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 6:12 am

i voted out last week

i'm in Norway working now - get voting lads - i hope there is a high turn out
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tomr182

Fabrizio Ravanelli

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 6:27 am

I am still absolutely torn. I change from day to day. And probably hour to hour today until I cast the vote.

On the Remain hand
Status quo, less risk, but then I don't think anything will actually change ultimately in terms of the new deal etc

On the Leave hand
It's a gamble, but it could pay off. I trust in our country (not the politicians in place at the moment per say) but us as a nation. We're the 5th biggest economy and have some incredibly smart individuals in every sector. Which leads me to think, why can't we become a better nation on our own, more agile and able to adapt to change more quickly in every sense - not just economically.


A vote to Remain is a vote to stay the same, a vote to leave, is a vote to change. Thats the depth of which I will make my decision. Do I want the change enough to accept the risks?
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 7:21 am

Boro85 wrote:
wilson wrote:I'm voting out! I'd give my views why but you tend to get shot down for your reasons, just go on fmttm..


Not here, I like to think we're civilised!


;)
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relfyoftheboro

Joseph-Desire Job

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 7:48 am

One of the easiest decisions I've ever made. Remain.

Quite simply allowing a deeply fractured tory party, with Boris likely to be at the helm, to negotiate the exit and then drawing up all the replacement legislation is, quite simply, fucking terrifying.

I'm no fan of the way the EU currently works. But to label it undemocratic when you look at the county we live in is like slagging someone off for driving a Hummer, when you yourself drive a Range Rover. It clearly needs reform but Id much rather be involved in reforming it, than having no influence at all from the outside.

It boils down to this, if we leave, take a look at who you'll be handing power over to.
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 8:46 am

If we leave we keep the same government and prime minister, Boris, gove and farage don't suddenly rule the country!
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LTS_3

Micky Fenton

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 8:49 am

Sure I have seen that if we leave Cameron will be basically out of a job

I've voted out, but I think remain will end up winning 59/41
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 8:53 am

We'll remain in the EU for 2 years before we leave so he won't go imo. We need more power than Brussels has over us. if we did I'd remain.
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tomr182

Fabrizio Ravanelli

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 8:59 am

Just talking to someone at work, who said his parents take (bear with me) on it was to vote out. Apparently, when they voted in, all those ago, what we currently have, is not what they voted for. So its interesting that even then an 'In' vote started as intended and then became a bigger beast and not what people actually supported.

Wonder whether the same can be said for Remain this time, in the sense that in 20 years time will we have even less 'power' within the UK and more lying with the EU.

hmmmm
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LTS_3

Micky Fenton

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 9:00 am

Asked my boss (who is retiring next summer) if he voted in or out, he said "in" and looked at me like I had 4 heads
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 9:19 am

We need to take back control! Immigration is the main reason I'm voting out, we can't control our borders. Our NHS is on its knees already and can sustain more and more countries that enter! Schools become flooded and that school you want your child to goto is full and becomes a lottery and council houses in your local area become impossible to get.

Sorry for the political broadcast
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relfyoftheboro

Joseph-Desire Job

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 9:59 am

wilson wrote:We need to take back control! Immigration is the main reason I'm voting out, we can't control our borders. Our NHS is on its knees already and can sustain more and more countries that enter! Schools become flooded and that school you want your child to goto is full and becomes a lottery and council houses in your local area become impossible to get.

Sorry for the political broadcast


Our own government has it in it's power to change all of that by simply investing properly in schools, housing and the NHS. Nowt to do with immigration.

In respect to control, I've yet to see any credible explanation how Leaving will change anything in that regard.
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tomr182

Fabrizio Ravanelli

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 10:53 am

The truth is, nobody really knows what will happen whoever wins.

Nobody predicted the EU would become how it is today 30years and nobody can predict what will happen if we vote in/out.

Either way, it'll be different to now because change happens all the time. Just depends whether we're part of the EU or were doing it on our own.
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tomr182

Fabrizio Ravanelli

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 10:54 am

I do get concerned that to most people, the in/out is coloured by immigration and everything else is forgotten.
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 11:04 am

I'm not one for discussing politics, but after listening to both sides, I side with leave campaign, yes they've flung mud but I believe the remain team have flung more.. I just wished they give us more clarity on both stay or leave! These politians haven't put themselves in a good light over the last few months! I believe us a country could survive alone! Norway and Switzerland have managed why can't we?
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Paul1986

Mikkel Beck

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 8:31 pm

For what its worth I voted in

I watched some stuff this week and all I could see was Remain making a point and Brexit stating well we are Britain, we will be fine, but without any real substance. As someone who's company i work for does a lot of business with the EU, I can't afford to take the risk that they really don't have a plan if we decide we are out. Anyway, we will know in the morning
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Tom

Ian Baird

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostSun Jun 26, 2016 6:04 am

I also voted Remain. If you took time to think about the Brexit arguments and promises they were flimsy at best, which has been shown by their pretty speedy backtrack on NHS funding and freedom of movement. That, and the grotesque levels of xenophobia in some corners of the Leave campaign should have been enough to put anyone off.

Anyway boys, good decision. Smashed it.
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wilson

David Mills

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostSun Jun 26, 2016 10:25 am

The decision is made now, nothing will change that , so we have to go it all alone, I believe we can do it alone but only time will tell!
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Meadsy

Mikkel Beck

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostMon Jun 27, 2016 12:11 pm

Voted out and knew that was how I was going to vote for years.

There's absolutely no need for this country to be tied to a right wing state that is set to continue it's plan of failed neoliberalism, whilst trying to introduce legislation like TTIP underneath the noses of normal people. The markets were always going to take a hit if we voted to leave, it's an inevitable economic shock that is unavoidable in times of uncertainty like this, it's the biggest change to the political system in recent history. It's all well and good talking about reform, but it means nothing if you can't substanitate it with a plan, and I haven't seen a single person do that. The kind of reform we need just isn't possible in the EU, their future ballot paper is full of more right wing politics and expansive capitalism, not left wing reform.

If the markets taking a hit for a few years is enough to turn you away then that's fine, but you can't then talk about progressive change and overthrowing the Westminster hierarchy etc, no strucutual change is possible without economic ucnertainity and a short term hit. I'd sooner see us struggle for the next 10 years (like we have done for the last 10 years, let's not forget) if it means we have the chance of electing a genuine left wing Government that would not be severely handicapped by the EU. That means much more to me then petrol prices going up by the penny and package holidays becoming more expensive. It really is each to their own, what you value more and you believe in the most. I can definitely understand the concerns and it could definitely go wrong.

Labour are actually up in the opinion polls whereas the right wing parties are down. If Boris does become leader then the opoprtunirty to topple the tories becomes even bigger. He is unelectable and will be presiding over an already broken Tory party. Good luck to any Tory MP that tries to privatise the NHS on a mass scale or attack workers rights, the opposition is enormous and complete political suicide given the attention this kind of thing will be getting in the media. Time to get behind Corbyn and ensure he is in a position to fight this piss poor Government. As long as he is committed to fighting for his place, he should be fine, no other labour MP will beat him in a party election, the votes come from the party members, so Hilarry Benn can fuck off.
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terminaljunkie

Bernie Slaven

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostMon Jun 27, 2016 12:51 pm

At the moment Labour are shredding themselves as well.

Chaos
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relfyoftheboro

Joseph-Desire Job

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostMon Jun 27, 2016 8:39 pm

terminaljunkie wrote:At the moment Labour are shredding themselves as well.

Chaos


Are they though? It seems to me nothing more than a small bunch of opportunistic, Blairite MPs desperately trying to cling on to the past. The actual party and its members have moved on. The right wing press and the now increasingly more biased BBC are making it into something more than that.

Read the official Corbyn releases. He doesn't seem even slightly rattled our bothered. He knows he has an overwhelming mandate.

Meadsy, I hope you're right. It just strikes me that a hell of a lot of people are going to pay in the next few years for this decision. People who could really do without it.
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Barney Rubble

Alan Peacock

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostTue Jun 28, 2016 11:46 am

Tend to agree with this if Corbyn survives the no confidence vote.

His Shadow Cabinet was made up of Blairites, Moderates, and his own team. The Blairites and moderates are the ones who have quit meaning if he is still leader after the confidence vote his shadow cabinet is made up of people loyal to him and of the same belief set and will stregthen his position as leader.
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Meadsy

Mikkel Beck

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Re: EU Referendum - In or Out

PostTue Jun 28, 2016 5:56 pm

As bad as this is presently for the Labour party in terms of polls and popularity, something had to be done. A large percentage of those voting against Corbyn were never in support of him anyway, only 35 MP's nominated him and a lot spoke out against it until it become clear he was going to win. Angela Eagle directly going against the request of her own consitnuency, it's everything that is wrong with party politics. The party member decide who represents them, they decide who they are confident in. The blairites needs to be farmed out one way or another , the left needs a united opposition, not one that is terrified of upsetting the establishment.

The best man to lead the party outside of the EU would have been Corbyn, he understands both sides of the argument better than anyone, it's just a shame the party are so self destructive and set in their ways. Corbyn had been neck and neck in the polls with Cameron and post brexit the labour party grew in popularity, along with the lib dems, the tories and UKIP were worse hit before the party revolt. Labour royally fucking things up for themselves.

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